INTERVIEWER: Today is June 25th 1987.  Our subject is Edith Tadd-Little.  When the phrase was coined “mover and shaker”, they had Edith Tadd-Little in mind.  When she arrived in Winter Park, things were never the same again.  It was onward and upward.  Today, her daughter, Sally Behre, will tell us about her mother.  Sally?

[00:00:31]      SALLY BEHRE:  This is just two days before Mother was born on June 27th, 1882.  But I will go back to her grandfather’s day for a minute or two.  

                He was William Tadd (T-A-D-D) from Foy in Cornwall, England and was a shipbuilder along with his four brothers.  And they uh... made trips all over the world and my grandfather was born at sea in 1853, which was very unusual because women aboard ship were considered very unlucky.  Why?  I don’t know but that was the theory at the time.  But that’s where Grandfather was born and his father was killed in a storm at sea on one of the great big ships that they all had built.

[00:01:31]      Grand-- uh... My Grandfather came to Canada and I still have not been able to find out what age he was but he was a young man.  And he came over to visit his sister, older sister, and then came on down to Philadelphia uh... where he studied art at the Pennsylvania Academy of Art in Philadelphia and also the uh... Academy of Fine Arts in Philadelphia.  Mother trained there when she was a—oh from a very early teenager until she was married.

                Mother was born in 1882 and died in 1960.  Grandfather had uh... trained her at home.  She was-- never went to school.  She had tutors and he traveled all over the United States and the world.  While he was traveling in the United States he took Mother with him.

[00:02:29]      So she met a great many famous people, went to a great many places and my grandfather lectured on art at the Cha-- Chautauqua in uh... is it New York?  I think.  And, uh... eventually started an art school in the Adirondack Mountains at Lake Placid.  So we all grew up there as very small children.  And Mother and all her sisters grew up there.

                She studied art from Grandfather and then he started the, uh... Industrial Art School in Philadelphia.  Which was one of the first of its kind.  And because he had night classes and he took uh... a great many of the young men and women uh... that didn’t have much to do and they were looking for something to do and they had night classes and it kept them off the street.  And it would be a wonderful thing today to do the-- start the same thing.

                INTERVIEWER:  Now, what year was that?  What period of history?

[00:03:30]      SALLY BEHRE:  Uh... It would be 1870s, around there. And on from there to when he died.

                And grandmother-- my grandmother taught there.  Grandmother was born in eastern Pennsylvania on the uh... William Penn Estate.  And she was raised a Quaker.  Now, how they met, I wish I knew.  But as far as I know there’s been no family record kept.  

                But, as uh... Mother was a young artist.  She uh... not only traveled with Grandfather, and when he gave lectures she demonstrated art by drawing on a blackboard with chalk, all kinds of things imaginable in the art world.  And one of the things she did when she was only 11 years old was to go to the World’s Fair in 1893 and Grandfather lectured and Mother demonstrated.

                And then when I was a young child Mother did the same thing with me so I missed a lot of school, which I enjoyed (laughter).  

[00:04:35]      INTERVIEWER: Where were you when she was doing that type of thing?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Oh, when I was doing it with- with her uh... she was going all over Florida. Uh... Then we spent the summers in the Adirondacks.  Meantime, she met my father in the Adirondacks because he was a- a doctor and was teaching anatomy at the Jefferson College in Philadelphia and was studying art under my Grandfather in the summer times.

                So they uh... had rom-- had their romance there and then were married in Philadelphia.  And they were married for 10 years and had three children.  

                When my father uh... came out of the Navy in World War I and caught flu in the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918-- 

[00:05:30]      So uh... One thing Mother did that was extremely unusual for a young girl or any woman in those days, when- when Grandfather was opening an art school in California, she was out there studying with him and joined a polo team, the first woman to ever be on a male polo team.  Can’t you see her?  Knowing her later?  Can’t you see her?  

                INTERVIEWER:  Yes, I can.

                SALLY BEHRE:  Riding sidesaddle-– she was a great horsewoman.  And uh... when she moved to St. Petersburg she rode horseback as much as she possibly could.

                After Daddy died, Mother was very ill and they thought she was ha-- was probably going to develop the same flu, so the doctor said that she had about three months to live. 

                And Grandma-- And Grandfather, the year before, had started a school—an art school—in St. Petersburg, and he had died in 1917. Daddy died in 1918 so the two widows, my grandmother and Mother, scooped up the three children and thought the only thing to do would be to go to the- to the house that were-- they had in St. Petersburg and hope for the best.

[00:06:37]      So that’s how we landed in St. Petersburg.  And the relatives had a fit because they thought they were taking us to Indian country.  Which, back in those days, wasn’t uh... too far off (laughter) the uh... idea because St. Petersburg was quite primitive, although it was beginning to grow.  There was no uh... no Palm Beach in those days.  There were a few, uh... oh mansions that were beginning to be built but not much else, it hadn’t become a- a city at all and Miami was a fishing village back in uh... 1918 when we came.

[00:07:15]      So they started the art school in St. Petersburg and uhm... had people from all over came to St. Petersburg to uh... live in the winter times.  So-- and then she also started having exhibits because it was the only art school east of Washington in those days.  And there was very little uh... culture and art back then.  Seems strange but that was- that was the way it was.

                So she decided to see what- see what she could do about it.  And she succeeded (laughter) in a great way.  She started going around to all the different uh... little- little towns they were in those days and lecturing and starting women’s clubs.  She was a “women’s libber” before the word was ever thought up (laughter).

[00:08:10]      INTERVIEWER:  Was your Grandmother liberated too?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, Grandmother was running the art school and taking care of us while Mother was scooting around doing these- all these other things.  And she started uh... interior decorating on the- on the side to help make some more money.

                In St. Petersburg also there was a- a club known as- as the “Three-Quarter (3/4) Century Club” and she was one of the founders of it.  This would have been uh... oh 1925 I think.  And it was for men over 75 and over and they started a baseball team and they became famous and played all over the country.  I think there’s a few in other cities but as far as I know, it’s still going strong in St. Petersburg.

[00:08:57]      Uh... When she came to— The- the most amazing part, I think, of her life was when she was sent to Florida to live three months. Uh... Then Grandmother put her out in the sunshine and fed her eggnogs and brandy which in those days was about the only medicine we had.  This was long before any antibiotics or any medi- medication.  And one day, out of pure will, she got up and as far as I know— for-- she never sat down for the next 42 years.

                And she was-- She had the energy of any six people you could think of.  And she always said that she would work on any committee, get anything done that she possibly could if it was only a committee of one, which was herself so she didn’t have to go through all the red tape and foolishness that goes with most committees.

[00:09:48]      She started the uh... Festival of States in St. Petersburg, which was uh... different clubs from all over the country that came down there for the winter time.  And along about the middle of spring, they would have a great big tremendous parade with all these beautiful floats.  

                And she started a young woman’s club uh... called the Beta Woman’s Club.  And when she came to Winter Park, she started a junior Woman’s Club up here.

                INTERVIEWER:  Yeah.  Vivian Blessing has mentioned that...

                SALLY BEHRE:  Right, Vivian was in it too.

                INTERVIEWER:  She was one of the original...

                SALLY BEHRE:  Margaret Edwards and the whole- whole bunch-- that-that generation were in it.

[00:10:30]      Also to do some publicity for St. Petersburg and put it on-- help put it on the map for anybody that wanted to come south to visit, uh... they decided that they would get a special uh... railroad car and paint all the sides of it, put- put walls in where the windows were and paint all different scenes from St Petersburg and what you could do when you came to spend your time in St Petersburg as a tourist.  

                And then they hitched it onto the uh... train; in those days there was a Seaboard Airline that came through St. Pete and a great many of the dignitaries and the fathers of the city of St. Petersburg all went to Washington to see what they could promote.    I think they went and talked to their House of Representatives and people like that.  But, she- she did all the painting on the train and it was- it was something to see on the outside and the inside.

[00:11:31]      Uh... Let’s see.  [Tape glitch]

                She was a pioneer in art.  She would go to all these little cities.  Well they weren’t even cities in those days -- places like Wildwood, Largo and Clearwater and Fort Myers and places like that that were just tiny little towns -- and uh... lecture on art at any- any group of people that would- would gather together like women’s clubs or the Rotary Clubs or Kiwanis Clubs.  And she helped to- to uh... start the women’s clubs all over the state.  

                She was also very interested in Florida and what is today called the college eback [ph?]. In those days, nobody had ever even heard of the word.  And she integrated many people in Winter Park, and- and first St. Petersburg and then Winter Park -- all got together and when they wanted something done they made a committee and then they got in uh... two or three cars and would go to Tallahassee and storm the headquarters (laughter).  That’s about what it did.

[00:12:40]      If you wanted anything done and you wanted it quickly and well done, you called on Edith Tadd-Little.  She helped folks in St. Petersburg and in uh... Winter Park to abolish the poll tax.  Back in those days, for anyone that is, what, younger than 50, the poll tax was $2.00 uh... that you had to pay in order to vote.  Now, it seems very weird in these-- this time but that’s how it happened way back in the 1920s uh...  1920s and 30s in Florida.  

                Uh... While she was still in St. Petersburg, she- she designed a- a hotel that was one of the most beautiful hotels in Florida at the time.  This was 1924 and it was called the Jungle Country Club.  Today, it is Farragut uh... Naval Academy. And it was a country club with a tremendous golf course and all things out at the far end of-- between St. Pete and St. Petersburg Beach.  And she did uh... all the designing of all of the rooms plus all the furniture and planned the opening night, and importing things from--

                INTERVIEWER: She was a renaissance woman.

                SALLY BEHRE: ...importing a- a group of musicians and things to come down for the opening night dinner dance.

[00:14:11]      And then the Depression came along and uh... everything fell apart. But she picked herself up and uh... started uh... her own real decorating shop then and did quite a bit of uh... home decorating, decorating homes and office buildings in St. Petersburg.  

                And one of the uh... biggest projects she did was uh... build the uh... decorate the Arden Building in Chicago. Elizabeth Arden, the cosmetician, was her cousin. 

                INTERVIEWER: She was he cousin?

                SALLY BEHRE: Yeah. She spent uh... oh I guess it was almost a year up there designing and- and working with the architects and designing all the floors of the buildings-- of the building.

[00:14:57]      Now when she came back uh... she had heard about Rollins College, thought about it; came up and visited Hamilton Holt because she knew Hamilton Holt back in Philadelphia days where she-- Mother was born.

                She also knew Mary Bach, who was Mary Curtis Bach, the-- Mary Curtis at the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia.  And then she married uh... Edward Bach and that’s how they all drifted down this way. And we were in on the- the building of the- the Bach Tower.

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh you were?  Did she have anything to do with--

                SALLY BEHRE:  No, she just ran down there all the time to make sure everything was being done as it should be (laughter), including importing all the birds and plants and everything.  It was really beautiful when it was first opened. 

[00:15:48]      And uh... we knew Annie Russell when she had retired to uh... St. Petersburg. And so Hamilton Holt decided that it would be just lovely if he could somehow persuade Mary Bach, Annie Russell and Edith Tadd-Little to come to Winter Park which he duly did (laughter).

                Mother was hoping that her three children would go to Rollins. Well, Sister eloped very shortly after we moved here.  Brother got a scholarship to Yale because Hamilton Holt was a graduate of Yale and thought it would be very interesting if Brother went to Yale. 

                INTERVIEWER: So this was in 1932?

                SALLY BEHRE:  No this was 1930 when we moved here.

                INTERVIEWER:  1930...

[00:16:28]      SALLY BEHRE:  I spent the first two years-- uh... the last two years of my high school in uh... Winter Park High.  And then I went off to uh... the north hoping that I would be able to get out of Florida because I never liked it.  I didn’t like the climate (laughter). And fortunately, I was able to go to- to a college in uh... Boston, Massachusetts.  So Mother was left high and dry with just Grandmother and uh... herself to carry on in-- at uh... in Winter Park. And Grandmother died just a few- few months after that.

                INTERVIEWER:  Did she buy that house on Lake Mizzell (17:11) before she came?

                SALLY BEHRE:  It belonged- it belonged to Hiram Power.  Remember Hiram Power?

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh, ok.

[00:17:16]      SALLY BEHRE:  Your family would have-- uh... real estate man.  And they had lived in it and Mother uh... loved the view.  She stood up on an orange crate and looked out over the- the lake and- and thought it was one of the loveliest views anybody could have anywhere around which it was back in those days because you could look right over to Genius Drive.. 

                INTERVIEWER:  Describe (inaudible) (17:38) at the foot of (inaudible) (17:40).

[00:17:39]      SALLY BEHRE:  As- as you go out uh... Osceola Avenue going from town-- from the-- Park Avenue in Winter Park, uh... you go out Winter Park and just before you turn to go up uh... Brewer Hill, she was the second house from the corner on the left and it looks out on Lake Mizzell. So when you looked straight across the lake, you see the whole of- of-- almost the whole of Genius Drive back in those days.  Of course now, there's all the- the uh... housing and everything.  So, it was a beautiful place but it was-- uh... let’s see the uh... oh... What was the name of the gardens? Azalea Gardens.  

                INTERVIEWER:  The Brewer Azalea Garden?

[00:18:31]      SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, the Brewer Estate.  Our house was originally uh... one of the servant’s quarters for the--

                INTERVIEWER: Brewer Estate?

                SALLY BEHRE: Yeg, the Brewer Estate.  And next store to it there was another house that was servant’s quarters and that’s where Dr. Burks lived and his family.

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh, that’s right.

                SALLY BEHRE:  Those- those two houses, and then further- further in on the gardens was uh... one more house that was servants-- for servants.  

[00:18:59]      So we were pretty far out in those days.  Grandmother used to sit in the porch and get very excited if three cars went by (laughter). When I sold the house in 1970, they clocked it at uh... 25,000.  Today it’s probably, oh I- I’m guessing but I’d say it’s about 75,000 a day.  And you could hardly get out of the driveway now.  Traffic is so heavy. But in those days we felt like we were living out in the country. And uh...

                INTERVIEWER:  Well, did you ever come back and live here or...?

[00:19:38]      SALLY BEHRE:  I- I used to come back and visit.  Uh... After I- I got out of College I worked in New York for many years and uh... in the- in the so-called art world but it was an entirely different kind of art than Mother was doing.  It was commercial art.  We- we made mannequins for all the uh... display windows all over the country and well, really all over the world, we sent them all over.  So I used to come home on- on vacations.

                  And then in -- it was Labor Day week uh... weekend of 1953. I came down uh... to live and brought my son who was then six years old and put him in uh... first grade in-- yeah, in Winter Park Grammar School which is right down on-- still on the main street.  

[00:20:24]      And just as- as an aside, if you look at that building, it is really a lovely building.  If you walk around it and look at the design of the building, I wish there was some way someone would buy it and re- really restore it.  But-- I don’t know what the plans are, whether it could be saved or made into a arcade or something, I don’t know.

                INTERVIEWER:  Well, you had-- your mother had just moved here in 1930 and bought the house and then she started shaking-- moving and shaking Winter Park...

[00:21:00]      SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, because that-- Mrs. Bach-- Annie Russell moved here-- let’s see-- Annie moved up in the Spring of uh... 1930 and we came in August, so Mother uh... decorated Annie’s house and she had broken her hip so they had to put an elevator in and that was unheard of in those days in a two story house. So that took a good part of the summer I think (laughter) to get it all engineered and everything. 

                And then uh... Mary Bach came down to- to visit Annie and to see the house and decided uh... with Hamilton Holt, that Mrs. Bach would like to contribute the money to build the Annie Russell Theater.  So then it all started.  And Mother did all the interior of the Annie Russell Theater.  After it opened she uh... also did uh... backdrops for the stage and made costumes.  She was forever making costumes for this thing.

[00:21:59]      INTERVIEWER:  You mean herself, doing the actual sewing?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, yeah. Grandmother and Mother. And they would- they would get in friends and things.

                INTERVIEWER:  Would you describe the painting of the ceiling of the Annie Russell Theater?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Well, I- I was-- I’ve often wondered why it- it was painted. It’s- it's just Spanish designs really on the- on the top.  But to me it never matched the uh... persini-- persinium [ph] arch or the bo-- or the uh... boxes on each side of it. Of course they’ve changed it all now and the boxes are used as part of the stage.

[00:22:32]      And uh... we uh... had to make stencils for all of the designs so I helped Mother with the stencils and cut them out and I still carry scars on some of my fingers from using a stencil knife.

                INTERVIEWER:  Really?

                SALLY BEHRE:  And Mother did the uh... stood on a scaffolding--

                INTERVIEWER:  She stood on a scaffolding?  My husband was asking about that last night.

                SALLY BEHRE:  They built these scaffoldings.  I guess it would be uh... what--20 or 30 feet up I guess to the- to the big main ceiling.  I was only 16 so they wouldn’t let me get on the scaffolding.  It was child labor laws still in those days or something.  So uh... I was only allowed to paint the balcony on a step ladder.  And Emily Burks, Dr. Burks’ daughter, helped me.  We did this after school.  So you had to hold the stencil up with one hand and- and draw it in.  We used-- just used chalk to draw it in.  And then painted--

                INTERVIEWER: ...you painted it free hand?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, it was all painted free hand.

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh my soul...

[00:23:33]      SALLY BEHRE:  And Mother had uh... had some pretty serious surgery when she was doing the uh... Elizabeth Arden building in Chicago and uh... told that she was never supposed to ride horseback again or to go up stairs.  So this was four years later and here she was on a scaffolding, painting and hanging by her eyelashes (laughter).  But that’s the way she- she did things.  And it took uh... oh I guess it was what, six or eights months to do it all and then they had the big opening.  Now I can’t remember what the opening play was but Annie was in it. 

                INTERVIEWER:  She was?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Um-hum...and Mother did the cos-- Mother and Grandmother and- and some of the other ladies in town did the-- some of the costumes for that.  Of course, but-- of course, Annie brought a lot of her uh... costumes, period costumes, with her when she- when she came. And she- she was-- lived what, for 1935 I think it was?  So she was in oh, three or four plays.  We’d have to get those from the uh... theater department.

[00:24:53]      But uhm... I- I tell you between the four of them, Mother and Annie Russell, and Mary Bach and Hamilton Holt, things were flying fast and furiously around this town for awhile.  And it was only three-- 3,000 in those days.  That included 350 people at Rollins.  So-- yeah. So for a little- little town, things were happening very fast and uh... Hamilton was starting the uh... oh, animated magazine.  I think it started that year or maybe it- maybe it was a little before but I don’t- don't quite remember.

[00:25:30]      But my- my-- Besides doing all her artistic work, Mother would uh... make her daily rounds and check into the post office downtown where in those days almost everyone-- well, everyone did have a mail box in those days.  There was no delivery to homes.  And you got to see all your friends in a small town so that was great fun.  

                And she also decided that she would go see what was happening at the Chamber of Commerce and City Hall and the Police Department.  (laughter)  And she used to go in and tell them all uh... just like she would line the three children up in the house, "This is the way it’s gonna be, see?” (laughter)  “We’re gonna do it this way.”  And uh... everybody snapped to! (laughter).

[00:26:17]      Uh.. Somewhere in-- along here, I’ve forgotten what the date was, but Mother was named Mrs. Winter Park, for all the things that she had done in Winter Park because she uh...  she was very interested in- in-- along with uh... the McCaines, in saving the park.  She went up to uh... Gainesville to the Bureau of Forestry, and uh... one of the men from there came down and Mother and the Bureau of Forestry man went through all of the- the Winter Park park on Park Avenue and marked and tested all of the trees and then marked the ones that had to either be taken down or trimmed or filled with, you know-- sometimes they fill them with concrete if there’s holes or hollows in them.  And then they went around town to some of the big trees on the Avenue.

[00:27:09]      So she was interested in just about everything you could possibly think of to try and make the town a- a more attractive place than it already was and it was very attractive from the very beginning.

                But she was- she was determined to- to bring culture and elegance and art and anything like that that she could.  She did it both in St. Petersburg and Winter Park.  

                And she was- she was interested in everything.  I don’t think anything ever escaped her. I think she lived every minute of her life to the fullest.  And I wish she had transported her energy to her children but she didn’t.  (laughter)  

[00:27:50]      Unfortunately, we’ve always said that right from the beginning, that we ne-- we never had the energy.  She thrived in the hot climate.  The hotter it got the more energy she had.  And she really was amazing.  I don’t know how she ever did it -- plus raisin three children, which I’m sure were uh... a hard- hard thing to do in those-- well, raising three children is a hard thing to do at any time.  

                But it was-- we never got to see too much of her because she was always going off and doing all these other things.  We always used to say when she’d come home, “Can’t you just sit down and uh...  and rest a little bit and visit with us?” But she would only do it for about a few minutes and the she was off to some committee meeting or- or doing something.

[00:28:38]      She was raised on the idea that you should leave the world a bit better place than where-- than how you found it.  And that she did for St. Petersburg, and Winter Park and the State of Florida.  Every hamlet, village, town and city should have an Edith Tadd-Little to keep people on their toes and to make it a better place to live.  She was rare and unique.

                INTERVIEWER:  Wonderful!  I feel like applauding your mom(clapping).  What a woman.

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, she really was.  And there- uh... there haven't been many like her.

                INTERVIEWER:  No, there certainly have not.

[00:29:15]      SALLY BEHRE:  But she got an awful lot accomplished and I- I think the most amazing is that, well, it’s been 27 years-- Uh... She died the 6th of June in 1960 -- and people still stop me on the street and talk about her.  Wished they were here now in Florida.  

                INTERVIEWER:  We certainly could use her.  I noticed you have some other papers over there.  Are those some things you could tell us about?

                SALLY BEHRE:  No, this was mostly about the cards.  This was written up in the- the Outlook, uh... no, the Winter Park Magazine two or three years ago and it’s al- almost the same thing about the Christmas cards and uh... the Winter Park uh... Art Festival, Sidewalk Art Festival. 

[00:30:01]      INTERVIEWER:  Well, why don’t you tell about that or read it or whatever so that we can have it on tape and then put it into the archives?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Well, in 1957, Mother and a group-- uh.. Darwin-- do you remember his first or last name that owned the Barbizon Restaurant--

                INTERVIEWER:    No, I don't.

                SALLY BEHRE: Canton Avenue?  Well, Barb-- Uh... Darwin and uh... Jim Holloway and uh...  I can’t remember the other- the other people who were there -- were sitting around talking one day...

                INTERVIEWER:  Now this is-- tell where it is--

[00:30:40]      SALLY BEHRE:  This is the Barbizon Plaza which was on the corner of Park Avenue and Canton where uh... Thomas’ Restaurant is today. And-- Oh, this was the starting of the Sidewalk Arts Festival.  They were all gathered for their morning coffee and uh... talking about doing some things for the uh... art- art world around here.  And the original-- Mother’s original idea was to have all the local artists--but she was mainly interested in having the art departments of all the schools from kindergarten through high school and then the Rollins College art department, too.  

[00:31:25]      So that started in uh... '59 on Park Avenue and it only covered uh... oh, the park from uh... New England to- to Morris.  And we had clothes lines to hang between the trees to hang the pictures on.  And I was working at the Jack and Jill Kindergarten so uh... I uh... hung them-- hung them on with uh... clothes pins.  

                And of course, the first art exhibit was uh... the windiest day I think we’d had in a long time.  This was the spring and we had to practically stand and hold everything down (laughter).  But people came from far and wide and that first year, I don’t know what the-- whether anybody took a head count of how many people turned out for the show or not.  

                But it was uh... Friday, Saturday and- and Sunday.  And uh... what few art equipment things they had like easels, they didn't have the booths or anything like they have today uh...  that were covered and protected from the weather.  They would stack them up at night and the Boy Scouts took turns each night sleeping in the park and patrolling the place.  (laughing)  

                So that’s how it started.  It was very small.  It was uh... Rollins and the- the art schools and then there were local artists like Hale Macintosh and Bob Anderson and uh... I can’t remember the names of any of the other ones but those were the two well-known ones that- that were starting and--  And then it grew and grew and the next year uh... it became a little more organized and Mother got through that uh... and then shortly after that, she went into the hospital and was-- and died that- that next year. But the- the Christmas cards uh...

[00:33:28]      INTERVIEWER:  How old was your Mother when she died?

                SALLY BEHRE:  She would have been-- three weeks-- she would've been six-- 79.

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh my word...

                SALLY BEHRE:  Um-hmmm...

                INTERVIEWER:  She did leave-- live a long life.

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, uhm-hmm... And uh... Well it was-- it's uh... it’s amazing when you think gave-- they had given her three months to live way back in 1918.  That was the most incredible part.  I’m sure she did it with God’s help and- and pure will power.  She was just determined she was going to carry on somehow.  And she- she did (laughter).  I don’t how she ever did it.  I’m sure if I had been left in the circum-- same circumstances, uh... I never would have made it.  But I like to hope I would but I’m- I'm not so sure.

[00:34:17]      And they did-- Mother got the idea of nine-- in 1957 of deciding that she’d do something for the Avenue for Christmas so that’s how the Christmas cards all got started.  And she call-- called in local artists and uh... people from the art department at Rollins and the different high schools.  Joy Winslow was teaching art in those days.

                INTERVIEWER:  Which Winslow?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Joy. Uh... What was her husband’s name?  Uh... Clem uh... Winslow’s husband-- wife, I mean.  She taught at Winter Park High School for years and years and she- she got some of her uh... students and they all met in the- the storage room in the back of the Barbizon restaurant and turned it into a- a painting gallery.  So that- that was uh... how the idea got started.  

                And then of course each other-- each year after that, they got in-- some of the clubs took over like the uh... Gar-- the Garden Club, the Red Pepper Club and people like that-- and they would come down and- and paint.  So now they cover almost all uh... all the town.  In those days, it only went from-- I think from the Barbizon down to New England, something like that.

[00:35:34]      INTERVIEWER:  You said those are in storage here in Winter Park?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah...of course the original ones, I think have disintegrated through the- through the years and uh... and the climate because they were hung for almost a- a month. And they- they used them and re- repainted them and tried to restore them but I think they are all-- those original ones I’m sure are all gone.  But uh... it's- it’s great for the Avenue and people come from all over to see it.  So she was forever doing uh...  greetings like that.

                INTERVIEWER:  Tell us about some more of the interior decorating that she did at the college and around town.

[00:36:11]      SALLY BEHRE:  She did it for years.  She did the uh... decorating of the uh... sorority houses at Rollings.  And then uh... Brother and Mother painted the ceiling and did the decorating for the student center, which wasn’t Carnegie Hall; it was the building next to it. It's still there now.

                INTERVIEWER:  I think it's the Student Center is what it’s called...

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, but they uh... they painted over that.  And then she did the Kraft home on uh... Webster and Georgia Avenue, which is now part of Mrs. Virginia Nelson’s property.

                INTERVIEWER:  Oh, that’s the house Mrs. Nelson tore down.

                SALLY BEHRE: Yeah, uhm-hm... That’s the house that was torn down. Uh... She did some work in the lobby I think when they were doing some restoration at the Virginia Inn, which was Morris Boulevard and Lake Osceola.  And she did the Annie Russell house.  

[00:37:10]      Uhm... She used to paint the auditorium for different things in-- at the uh... symph-- for the Florida Symphony.  She was on the uh... the Board of the Symphony for a long time.  And that, by the way, started in Winter Park which very few people know. Mary Lynch, did you ever know Mary Lynch?

                INTERVIEWER:  No...

                SALLY BEHRE:  ...that lived at the foot of...well, it was Chase Avenue.  It started uh... if you uh.. start out from the Winter Park Library, it’s the street that goes-- starts from the lake and goes by gr-- what used to be uh... the Green-- Ray Green property.  And now I think it turns and goes down there by Rollins, only about two blocks.  But she lived there down by the lake...

                INTERVIEWER:  Was she related to Larry Lynch?

[00:38:02]      SALLY BEHRE:  No. No. That was an entirely different family.  I don’t know much about Mary’s background but she uh... decided that Winter Park should have a symphony.  Now this was back in the 30s just about the time the Annie Russell Theater was starting.  And uh... she gathered together a few people that played instruments.  She wanted me to play the base viol because I was tall.  She didn’t seem to think that I had no idea of ever doing such a thing or ever wanted to but she thought it would be a very fine idea and I said “Thank you very much but no thank you.” (laughter).  

                But see uh... I don't-- Uh... Alphonse Carlos might have been in on that.  I think he was.  And two or three other people-- there were a couple of people that had played the violin for a hobby and things like that.  And it was-- that was really the beginning of it and we met in the Rollins gym which has since burned down.  It went out into the lake.  It was for a while the--

                INTERVIEWER: It was called Rec Hall

[00:39:06]      SALLY BEHRE:  Rec Hall, yeah. I’ve forgotten the year it burned down but I remember going down and watching it.  Uh... Oh, I don’t imagine there were more than maybe six or seven members, but people in Winter Park would come.  I can’t remember how many uh... times a- a month it met- it met in the winter time but that’s how it all began and then it grew and grew and grew and eventually became the Florida Symphony in Orlando.  And there's few people that uh... remember that.

                INTERVIEWER:  Do you-- Wasn’t there someone in your family that was an- a conductor? Was it your brother’s wife?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Uh... no-- It uh... Olin Downs [ph?] was uh... my uncle...my husband’s uncle...He was my uncle-in-law, who was a music critic for the New York Times for years and years and broadcast the uh... opera every Saturday.  Is that the one you’re...?

                INTERVIEWER: Owen Downs did you say-- 

                SALLY BEHRE:  Uh... Olin O-L-I-N Downs...is that the one you’re thinking of?

[00:40:15]      INTERVIEWER:  No, there was someone I thought came to Winter Park back in the 30s and was-- I thought it may have been your brother’s wife or someone connected with Edith Tadd-Little who was a conductor.  A woman...

                SALLY BEHRE:  No, my- my sister-in-law, uh... Gail Little, that married my brother uh... taught music and went-- graduated Radcliffe and stun-- studied under Kusavit-- uh... Kusavitsky [ph] who was the head of the Boston Symphony for years and uh...  she- she took some uh... music from Art Hutchins-- uh... Arthur Hutchins at Rollins when he was teaching voice over there.

[00:40:56]      INTERVIEWER:  Well, I probably have it mixed up with somebody else.

                SALLY BEHRE:  Well, no I can’t- I can't think.  Uh--  She was one of the- of the-- people that worked the- the hardest I think and I was there was a record of it in the Winter Park Hospital.  She helped get that property for the Winter Park Hospital uh... back in uh... 1950s. Well, when- when we came in 1930, it was a golf course.  Do you remember the little country club and the golf course?  

                INTERVIEWER:  Yes

                SALLY BEHRE:  Well, she was- she was one of the ones that helped to figure out how to get that property somehow and started the Winter Park Hospital.  And as I said, she was on the board at the symphony and- and the Women’s Club.  And I found out this-- re- re-reading this this morning that she was a- a volunteer recruiter for the WAVES in 1943 (laughter).

[00:42:01]      There wasn’t much she missed.  And she did-- she was a, you know, a volunteer for the uh...  the  uh... the WAVES-- turned into a-- After that, she was doing the recruiting for that, she was working for the Bundles for Britain.  Remember that for World War II?

                INTERVIEWER: Oh, yes. I remember that.

                SALLY BEHRE: I- I’m sure there’s a whole lot of other things; I uh... I cannot remember them all.  Because I was gone for so long...didn’t come back until-- I was hoping she’d slow down and retire about the time I came back in 1953 but uh... I was uh... I must have not been thinking very well (laughter) because that was something she’d never do.

[00:42:50]      But she- she loved the-- loved the young people and she got a great kick out of the Junior Women’s Club and the Beta Women’s Club that she started in uh... St. Pete-- in the days in St. Petersburg.  So she really uh... really just carried on from- from the St. Petersburg days to doing the same thing when she got up to Winter Park. 

                INTERVIEWER:  Did you say that she was educated only by tutors and- and governesses?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah...and- and traveling.  And stu-- She studied art uh... with Grandfather and then at the academy in Philadelphia.  If she had had time, I think she would have made a very fine sculptor but uh... busy teaching uh...  at-- and running the art school and all the other things she did and raising the three kids, uh... there wasn’t anytime to sit down with uh...  some clay and see what she could turn out.  But that was where her- her uh... interest lied, I think the most in the art world.  And she did it when she was training and-- at the academy in Philadelphia. 

[00:43:58]      I have that one...here’s one picture of her up there... She started... Grandfather started her when she was about three years old.  

                INTERVIEWER: Oh my word...

                SALLY BEHRE:  ...and he was... He-- He was uh... There he is there... He uh... has written--  wrote a book about uh... art and his biggest theory was that you could be trained to be ambidextrous.  Some people are born ambidextrous and some aren’t and his theory was that you used both your eyes and both your ears and both your feet; why not use both your hands?  And I was born ambidextrous. Why, I don’t know.  And that’s how I got my first job because they said didn’t- they didn't have to employ somebody else to have two people. I could do both.  (laughter)  

[00:44:46]      I can’t do it now it's-- because I haven’t kept it up but it was fun back in those days.  And Mother- Mother and her sister did it, too. All through the book here’s pictures of them uh... drawing with both hands.

                INTERVIEWER:  Do you have a copy of this book?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, um-hmmmm.  Do you want to see it?

                INTERVIEWER:  Yes...I’d love to see it

                SALLY BEHRE:  It’s uh...

                INTERVIEWER:  Before we stop, did you have any funny stories that your mother-- your mother told or do you have any funny stories about her that you could talk about?

[00:45:23]      SALLY BEHRE:  Oh we used to kid her all the time about we wished she would just sit down and- and talk to us and tell us more.  Uh... She never did talk about uh...  Daddy.  Uh... They were married only uh... 10 years.  She had uh... male friends when she was in St. Petersburg and in Winter Park, too.  

                [Tape glitch]

[00:45:56]      We always hoped that she would marry again but she- she never did.  Never would.

                INTERVIEWER:  Didn’t have time...

                SALLY BEHRE:  Nope, didn’t have time.  Well the- the funny story that Daddy’s aunts uh... always said, that his one ambition in life after he married her was that he uh... could get her to sit down for five minutes. She was going all over the place in Philadelphia when they- when they were married.  

                Everybody always wanted her, you know, to sit down and just chat but she uh... she always had to be off doing something. (laughter)  I can’t think of any uh... 

[00:46:37]      [tape glitch]... had ambitions for all of us. I don’t know whether uh... Well, we didn’t carry the uh... her ambitions out. I don’t know whether it ever- ever upset her or not.  She always John to be a- a diplomat and uh... I think she’d like Margie to marry a millionaire, which we teased her about for years.  And I was supposed to be uh... in the business world, which I didn’t want any parts of (laughter).

[00:47:06]      INTERVIEWER:  You- you enjoyed the art?

                SALLY BEHRE:  Yeah, and I uh... I wanted to go to art school in uh... New York.  There were three very fine art schools but uh... I decided that I should go to the- the school that I went to in Boston.  I loved it after I got there.  I would-- I wanted to go anywhere just so I could get out of- of Florida and uh... because-- mainly because of the climate.  I just never have uh... taken to the- to the heat.  And of course what we have what -- six or seven months of it now.  

[00:47:40]      So, uh... probably as soon as you walk out the door I will think of a whole lot of other things.

                INTERVIEWER:  Well, we’ll stop for now and continue at another time.